SeanPaulMurphyVille: The Haunting of 21 St. Helens Avenue, Part 17, Marion's Tale, Pt. 2

Tuesday, February 11, 2020

The Haunting of 21 St. Helens Avenue, Part 17, Marion's Tale, Pt. 2

Four Generations of women.
Was something spiritual passed down the line?

My upcoming novel Chapel Street was inspired by my experiences growing up in a "haunted" house at 21 St. Helens Avenue* in the Northeast Baltimore neighborhood of Lauraville. This series of blogs will provide an oral history of the actual haunting that inspired the book. This entry consists of the second half of an interview with my niece Marion.

Marion differs from my previous interview subjects because she never actually lived in the house. However, her interview deals with the issue of supernatural gifts, or unusual spiritual sensitivities. Until I began this series of interviews, I didn't realize that many women in my family believe they have psychic or paranormal gifts. I believe these sensitivities might provide a partial explanation for the intensity of the haunting we experienced. However, it is not the whole story since other people who make no such claims have had intense experiences....

Here is part one of the interview: The Haunting of 21 St. Helens Avenue, Part 16, Marion's Tale, Pt. 1

Here's a clip from the interview.

SEAN: I don't know if I asked you this already, but do you think it was one thing or multiple things in 21 Saint Helens?

MARION: I don't know, because I've always had it. So unless it was something from early on, I don't know. It's not like there was a point where I consciously thought it was cool or anything, and it didn't start at Grandmom's house either. So I'm not sure if it's just all the women and you in the family kind of have this or not, I don't know.

But to your other question about -- did you want to ask it again?

SEAN: Do you think, based on your, you know, perceptions, that there was more than one thing in the house? Second part of the question, if there was more than one thing, do you think any of them were human?

MARION: I think there was one major Entity that was nonhuman that was seeking probably souls, so on the demon spectrum. I do think that there were also potentially human ghosts that were -- had not very much power. I was also kind of under the impression that there were -- yeah, that there were a number of human ghosts that were basically stuck there and were at -- like, being forced there by the Entity. But I don't know if there was more than one, like, demon, other than the one main one. But I think there were probably originally human ghosts there, too.

SEAN: Well, you know, a number of people died there, and whatever was there, was there before we got there because it was there when we got there.

MARION: Right.

SEAN: They say with demons they’re presence is usually a result of either unintentionally calling a demon, i.e. with like a Ouija board or something or playing with the occult, or sometimes it's an object associated with the occult or associated with the Entity, or a place where there was suicide or lots of death or violence. And a number of people died there, but it didn't seem -- I am missing one death certificate, but other than two of that might have been victims of possible falls, but other than that, it didn't seem like there was murder or suicide in that house.

MARION: Right.

SEAN: So I would tend to think, then, maybe someone, maybe not even someone living in that house, may have been involved in occult practice or something. Because --

MARION: Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends on if it's just in that house versus in other houses, too, or in other houses in the whole neighborhood. Does keep going back to the same places in that house, so it does have some connection geographically to the house. I don't think it's necessarily associated with objects, although when we moved out of the house, we were kind of quickly trying to get rid of things that were in the house, like furniture and things like that. But I think there's still a couple pieces of furniture, but I don't think it necessarily was tied to any of those objects. And it was there before other kind of occult activities may have happened in the '80s. So I don't know, it was just there.

SEAN: Yeah. I would say that, yeah, it seemed to me right now, before the Ouija board incident, the haunting mainly seemed to be centered in the closets on the second floor.

MARION: Right.

SEAN: And then after the Ouija board thing, there was a lot of activity upstairs. Unfortunately, Dougie was not there. Dougie did not experience anything, and I'm not surprised, because I didn't experience anything for over ten years. So Dougie did not experienced anything. Mark experienced stuff, and that was prior to the Ouija board.

MARION: Yeah.

SEAN: From what I'm hearing now. So something was already upstairs.

MARION: Sometimes the stuff is so mundane that you and Dougie might have been experiencing it and you didn't know it.

SEAN: The only thing that could be a false memory to me might be the organ, which is why I don't jump on that, because I do kind of remember hearing it play, like a single note once, but I'm not sure whether it could have been actually someone playing a single note --

MARION: Right.

SEAN: -- or you know, I just heard these stories from I guess Mark and Laurie, and just imagined it. But the rest of the stuff that happened to me firmly exists in a place in time that I can identify.

MARION: Yeah. But things like misplacing something, that could have happened and you wouldn't necessarily have noticed. You may have just thought you were slobby or something.

SEAN: Yeah.

MARION: Or if you think that there were people in the house and there wasn't anyone there. When I was really little, I always remember there being lots of people in the house. So there would be no way for me to remember if any of those were not real people.

Natalie, Marion, Emily

SEAN: Was this you in your original note or did Natalie say she always felt that there were other adults there and just assumed they were family friends?

MARION: I think Natalie said that, but I always thought that, too. But everyone who was older than a kid is an adult in my memory.

SEAN: Yeah. So what's your overall thoughts regarding all this and how it affected you? But before we go there, are you still having the dreams?

MARION: I do periodically have dreams about the house, but the entity's not in it. It's usually I'll have a dream where the house is empty and we have to go back in and get something. Or like, it oftentimes is like somebody ran inside and we have to wait for them to come out or something like that. When we left, I often would get dreams even when we were -- even after Grandmom had moved out, where it was kind of saying things like -- not necessarily saying things but impressing on me like, Oh, you'll be back. Sure you're leaving now, but you'll be back. So I will not go back there.

But yeah. I think a lot of the times now if I have a dream about that house, it often is at the same time as, like, it's a new setting for a stress dream because your brain always likes to come up with new settings for those. The entity's not in it. But I'll have dreams with other kind of things in them, but not that one.

SEAN: Now, in your letter you sent me, an e-mail, you say sometimes you will actually see in a room there'll be people and some will be real and some won't be real?

MARION: Yes. Yeah. Like I think it was at maybe Beth's house, there was somebody that was walking downstairs, standing on the stairs, looking at the party, walked away. That person wasn't really there.

SEAN: Did you tell Beth?

MARION: I think so, and then they said like, oh, yeah, that'll happen. Like, that's not the first time they've heard that one before.

SEAN: Oh, okay.

MARION: But usually if I see any ghosts, it's kind of like the corner of my eye or I'll look at it and it will be kind of like a smoky wisp thing that is kind of similar to those other things, what I said when I was really little. That I might see head on, but most of the time, you know, if there's a ghost there, it's more like the feeling of one, or if I'm remembering it, like, oh, yeah, there was somebody standing right there.

SEAN: Now, do you get the sense that they're trying to communicate with you in any way or that they're aware that you can see them?

MARION: Yes. I think that's what it is. Is for some reason, I must be more visible or something to them. If there is a ghost there, they always kind of seem to come over to me. Maybe it's like -- I don't know. I've kind of thought about it, maybe it's just they are kind of excited to see that somebody can kind of see them. But a lot of times, they're just more residual ones anyway that are kind of just attracted to me for some reason. A lot of times, like a place will feel kind of hostile, and then once they come and check me out, it kind of is not hostile anymore.

SEAN: Do you have the ability to turn that off?

MARION: Um, I do -- like, I did practice -- they used to kind of follow me. And that happened to me when I was in college around that same time as everything else happening, where I would have a dream about this ghost who was walking up and down these stairs, and she asked if she could follow me around for a while because she couldn't get out of these stairs. And so I was like, oh, sure, and then she was in real life following me around. And that is around the point where I was kind of like, I have to figure out how to make it so that they don't follow me anymore. So I do have some mental tricks to make sure that they know that it's okay if they see me, it's okay if I see them, but they can't come with me.

SEAN: Yeah. That's unadvised, to allow them to come with you.

MARION: Right. Well, that's what I kind of had to practice in my subconscious. Because things -- you know, a lot of times I'd get those dreams and stuff, but I think it's when I'm sleeping, it's because I don't really have that conscious ability to be able to stop it. So once I figured that out, it's not so bad.

SEAN: So I just want to make a point, is that you felt the thing -- the Entity, you believe you were feeling the Entity away from the actual house itself?

MARION: Yes.

SEAN: You could feel its influence on you?

MARION: I could, yeah. And it made me feel like really crazy. Like, I was afraid I was going to go crazy.

SEAN: Now, obviously you know where I'm going now. This is sort of the fundamental question that started this investigation. Do you think that in any way, the Entity could be responsible in part for Laurie or Mark's death?

MARION: I can kind of -- I'm keeping my mind open to it. Obviously I don't want it to be a thing like mental illness is caused by supernatural things, but I did always kind of feel like, if I thought about it too much, that I could actually go crazy. So I could see you getting a couple of people tipped in the direction of being a little bit more insane, like triggered in that way. So potentially, maybe with Mark. Although, I mean, he had a host of problems. But I mean, that stuff does get triggered.

And if it is able to visit you when you're sleeping, I guess you could continue to experience it outside of the house. Also if you have this constant feeling of oppression, that can kind of -- if she was -- with Laurie, was experiencing that, that could also kind of give you some tendencies, probably, toward suicide. But I don't necessarily think it was there when she did it. It may have affected their mental state possibly, but I wouldn't -- there's no way I could scientifically test it, though.

SEAN: Yeah, well, that's my impression, is that it left a sense of oppressiveness, which according to the recent information I got regarding Mark and his experiences from one of his friends about his experiences up in that room and the voices he was hearing, and the voices were feeding his paranoia.

MARION: Yeah, right. I could see if you have that inclination to have some mental illness, that would be a weak point, that it would definitely be able to influence that.

SEAN: Did you feel that --

MARION: So potentially.

SEAN: Did you feel that it was trying to influence you towards suicide or other --

MARION: No.

SEAN: -- madness?

MARION: I always kind of felt like I could go crazier if the Entity wanted me to. I always kind of felt like that. I also would get kind of feelings of like, oh, you think this clairvoyance stuff is kind of cool, right? Like, don't you want to know more? Don't you -- you know, basically like if you pay a little bit more, you could get more out of it. Which is stuff that I had never really thought about as being potentially influenced by the Entity until fairly recently where I -- yeah. Where it was kind of like, it was giving me a little taste of stuff for curiosity's sake, and I would like -- if you want to the really good stuff, though, you got to pay to play.

SEAN: So what's causing this reevaluation? Is it the blogs, is it the interviews that's causing you to reevaluate your own experiences?

MARION: Yeah, it's the interviews. A number of years ago, I was researching the house, because I was working for a cultural research management company and I had access to deed research and stuff like that. So I had always been interested in the house and I have done a lot of background research for it, and I had always thought for years that it would be really great if somebody collected an oral history of people's experiences with it.

But then the more I've been thinking about my kind of everyday activities, the more I kind of think about how much of that was influenced by the Entity. Since I always had those dreams, it always felt like that was the real thing, but I always kind of felt like since I didn't actually live in the house, that no one really would have accepted that I was having real experiences with it since I wasn't living there.

SEAN: I really felt I put this Entity in a box, and sort of ignored anything that didn't fit my preconceived notion of how I experienced it. But you know, I've really tried to come into this with an open mind, and it is changing my feelings. For example, for me to think that there is more than one is a big leap for me.

MARION: Oh, really?

SEAN: Because I just thought I only experienced one thing. And it's funny though, I would, like you, say because of its strength and/or size, I assumed it was male, but it really wasn't male. You know what I mean?

MARION: Right. Yeah.

SEAN: It had a perception of maleness to me but it was not male. And I will say, I never saw it, it never spoke to me, but it would react to things I would say.

MARION: Right.

SEAN: But once I realized it would react to things I would say, I just wouldn't address it anymore, for the reasons you expressed earlier that interacting with it was empowering it. So I just stopped interacting with it.

MARION: Yeah.

SEAN: So once again, it's a science, and I look at it this way. If there is indeed a spiritual dimension, and I believe there is, if you look at 100 percent of that spiritual dimension, and hundred percent of our dimension here, the overlap between the two is probably less than .0001 percent. So we are looking at it in a totally dark way. Our ability to know what is going on in that realm at any given moment is essentially impossible for us to figure out what is going on.

MARION: Yeah.

SEAN: No matter what your religious world view is. Because even if you believe the Bible's right, that everything in the Bible's correct about these entities, there is so little in the Bible, you know what I mean?

MARION: Yeah.

SEAN: If you put all those passages together, it's not going to explain everything that people who've lived through -- what we lived through -- need to know. Particularly the why. We do not have the why.

MARION: Yeah. And usually religion seeks to answer the why questions. But science doesn't usually, so that's why it would be very difficult to apply scientific principles to that type of thing as well.

SEAN: And also it seems that the Bible, the possessions are almost always involve people and not places. But it seems to be pretty common that demonic entities will inhabit places for one reason or another. But that's not necessarily the whys and wheres. Is it bound there or does it want to be there? Suppose you're an Entity like the one in the house. This is something that is probably timeless in a real sense. If it could go anywhere, why would it want to stay at 21 Saint Helens Avenue?

MARION: Yeah, I know.

SEAN: To me, that's very puzzling. I would at least go to the Bahamas a couple weeks. Then again, sometimes it was absent. But that doesn't mean it was absent from that area. It may have just meant it was at one of the other houses.

MARION: Yeah, or it just was absent from one person. Because if a lot of it is psychological, you know, if you're on a hiatus, it doesn't mean that it is necessarily on a hiatus. But it does seem to be very attracted to that location, which is kind of strange. Because I really would have thought that it would follow us out of it.

SEAN: Yeah. And also it seems as though it is attracted to that location, and people are saying it was everywhere in the house, that there was no clean place. It did seem particularly attracted to those closets, and also the closet in, as you kids would call it, the Hell Hole. And I'm wondering if that's just because it appears as a shadow thing to people. Maybe because it is a shadow, it stays in the dark. That's why there's less activity during the day.

MARION: That hallway was really dark, though, and it wasn't in the hallway. Well, there was that closet in the hallway that was creepy, I guess.

SEAN: Yeah.

MARION: Well, and the bathroom was really creepy, the closet that was part of it in the bathroom, and that wasn't dark. And it was a sun room, for ding dang's sake.

SEAN: Yeah. But I mean it seemed like it was mainly in your mother's room. That was her room. You know, in that main closet there. But as John said, everyone was always looking at that door when they were in that bathroom.

MARION: He's right. I never took a shower in there because then I wouldn't be able to watch the door or watch the closet. You'd have to have your back to it.

SEAN: Yeah. Well, I tell you what, thank you for your appearance. Is there anything else you would like to say?

MARION: I don't know. There's going to be lots of things that I wrote down or whatever, but I think that's the general gist of it.

SEAN: Okay, well, great. Thank you very much, and we will talk later. I'm turning off the camera.

Marion

Here's another clip from the interview:

Notes:

*21 St. Helens Avenue was the original address of the house when it was built. The street name and number changed over time, but I use the original address to protect the privacy of the current owners.

Additional blogs about the haunting:

The Haunting of 21 St. Helens Avenue, Part 24, Bad News Betty

The Haunting of 21 St. Helens Avenue, Part 25, Joe's Tale

My novel Chapel Street was inspired by the haunting. You can currently buy the Kindle and paperback at Amazon and the Nook, paperback and hardcover at Barnes & Noble.

Learn more about the book, click Here.

Listen to me read some chapters here:

Chapel Street - Prologue - My Mother
Chapel Street - Chapter 1 - RestingPlace.com
Chapel Street - Chapter 2 - Elisabetta
Chapel Street - Chapter 3 - The Upload
Chapel Street - Chapter 4 - The Kobayashi Maru

Let's stay in touch:

Follow me on Twitter: SeanPaulMurphy
Follow me on Facebook: Sean Paul Murphy

Follow me on Instagram: Sean Paul Murphy
Subscribe on YouTube: Sean Paul Murphy

SeanPaulMurphyVille

Sean Paul Murphy, Writer

Tuesday, February 11, 2020

The Haunting of 21 St. Helens Avenue, Part 17, Marion's Tale, Pt. 2

No comments:

Post a Comment

Counter

Labels

Popular Posts

Statcounter